I don't understand why the AICP doesn't mock up an ad for the Wall Street Journal and go to Budweiser and P&G and say: "We are going to run this on Monday and let consumers and your employees and all the unions that work for you know: you are participating in what we consider unfair business and labor practices and sending jobs away from the US.
I think you'd get them to re-think a few things. Only aggressive action will save what is left of the ability to make good money in production.
markhubbard
· 2 months ago
I made the very same suggestion years ago when GM came out with their "bidding guidelines", suggesting the WSJ ad tell consumers to go to their GM dealer and tell them they couldn't mark up the tires and wheels, audio systems and various other features. Sound preposterous? That's what GM is telling it's suppliers. That should have nixed the "bidding guidelines".
jsepoch
· 2 months ago
i understand why both mark and bob would endorse such drastic steps. but, because you possess weapons of mass destruction doesn't mean you should use them.
up until a year ago, it wasn't as if the production companies we're on the verge of financial collapse. we were still making fairly decent profits. yes, new guidelines and restrictions along with competition created a less lucrative climate but we were more than surviving.
the difference between then and now is the liability and risk of non payment wasn't looming over us.i believe we need to take action such as talking more openly, getting the production community to agree upon and enact a joint agenda. most importantly, industry leaders pushing back every day.
i say, diplomacy first before we go on an all out assault. there is a lot to lose for everyone by going to a publicity war and creating even more distrust.
also, there is no slam dunk that either the consumers or the corporate employees are going to sympathize with a bunch of guys living in NYC and Hollywood.
With that said, we need to leave all our options open. And what you guys suggest is one them but should be the action of last resort.
jsepoch
· 2 months ago
i understand why both mark and bob would endorse such drastic steps. but, because you possess weapons of mass destruction doesn't mean you should use them.
up until a year ago, it wasn't as if the production companies we're on the verge of financial collapse. we were still making fairly decent profits. yes, new guidelines and restrictions along with competition created a less lucrative climate but we were more than surviving.
the difference between then and now is the liability and risk of non payment wasn't looming over us.i believe we need to take action such as talking more openly, getting the production community to agree upon and enact a joint agenda. most importantly, industry leaders pushing back every day.
i say, diplomacy first before we go on an all out assault. there is a lot to lose for everyone by going to a publicity war and creating even more distrust.
also, there is no slam dunk that either the consumers or the corporate employees are going to sympathize with a bunch of guys living in NYC and Hollywood.
With that said, we need to leave all our options open. And what you guys suggest is one them but should be the action of last resort.
tvboy2
· 2 months ago
Jerry,
I think the route you speak of has received the same type of lip service and dancing-around for over 20 years. The issues have not changed. Mark-up, non-payment, agency contracts were all issue in the 80's and very little has been done to affect change.
And you miss the point. Why aren't industry leaders going as a group to Procter & Gamble? They are very reasonable and impressionable people. The Bud guys are not. But certainly both would understand a group of industry leaders in their faces pushing back against bad business practice. Going public is a last resort, but should certainly be a weapon in the arsenal.
That these issues have not been seriously pushed back for many years means that every company is on its own. No matter how much you and other EP's get together and negotiate good deals with the trade unions and DGA, very few of your competitors will leave money on the table if the two choices are less and none. You have written the tales how how agencies and clients want you to fight with competitors over the right to lose or "invest" in their commercials. Do you think this will end with the wave of a wand?
And its not just about the guys living in NY and Hollywood. There are thousands of tradesmen who are in financial peril now. Grips, gaffers, video guys, script supervisors et al who depend on you and the other companies (as you well know) to make a living. They benefit by your success and they have taken the brunt of the margin shrinkage of the day.
And by the way, I didn't post using my name, so thanks for that.
kris
· 2 months ago
wow ....tvboy2 ....lets do a billboard in the middle of manhattan
jsepoch
· 2 months ago
i don't disagree that we have been dancing around it for years but more importantly look at the top 30 companies in this business over those 20 years. have they flourished? have they been making profits equal to or exceeding their risk?
the lessening of profits has more to do with competition than it does with cost consultants or some agency policy. the thing of most relevance is fear of non payment. this was never an issue up until the world fell upon the brink if economic collapse. as the pillars of corporate america fell those of us that feed from their trough felt the pain greater than we ever anticipated.
as to guys living in hollywood and ny, your right there are countless others tradesmen and vendors who need this business. but, you and i both know a percentage of production companies have very little concern for those people. how many of the little guys have been asked to cut rates and give free days without ever have their kindness reciprocated when there is a job flush with cash? this is also not something new.
what i'm saying is that we aren't exactly angels ourselves. however, clients are crossing the line. although this has been building for over time it is rapidly reaching the point where the rewards no longer match the risk. this is a new development. for anyone to cry poverty or that we've been taken advantage of for the last 20 years, is either greedy or ran their company poorly.
fighting back against the mouth that has fed us all and continues to do so, must be done carefully and strategically. i admit we are doing a poor job of doing this. but, entering into a PR war with corporate america that has deeper pockets, better media relationships and is our source of revenue is a fool's errand.
in the perfect world the moral high ground (which is pretty shaky under our feet) would be enough. as we know our world is far from perfect.
jsepoch
· 2 months ago
i don't disagree that we have been dancing around it for years but more importantly look at the top 30 companies in this business over those 20 years. have they flourished? have they been making profits equal to or exceeding their risk?
the lessening of profits has more to do with competition than it does with cost consultants or some agency policy. the thing of most relevance is fear of non payment. this was never an issue up until the world fell upon the brink if economic collapse. as the pillars of corporate america fell those of us that feed from their trough felt the pain greater than we ever anticipated.
as to guys living in hollywood and ny, your right there are countless others tradesmen and vendors who need this business. but, you and i both know a percentage of production companies have very little concern for those people. how many of the little guys have been asked to cut rates and give free days without ever have their kindness reciprocated when there is a job flush with cash? this is also not something new.
what i'm saying is that we aren't exactly angels ourselves. however, clients are crossing the line. although this has been building for over time it is rapidly reaching the point where the rewards no longer match the risk. this is a new development. for anyone to cry poverty or that we've been taken advantage of for the last 20 years, is either greedy or ran their company poorly.
fighting back against the mouth that has fed us all and continues to do so, must be done carefully and strategically. i admit we are doing a poor job of doing this. but, entering into a PR war with corporate america that has deeper pockets, better media relationships and is our source of revenue is a fool's errand.
in the perfect world the moral high ground (which is pretty shaky under our feet) would be enough. as we know our world is far from perfect.
All Comments
I don't understand why the AICP doesn't mock up an ad for the Wall Street Journal and go to Budweiser and P&G and say: "We are going to run this on Monday and let consumers and your employees and all the unions that work for you know: you are participating in what we consider unfair business and labor practices and sending jobs away from the US.
I think you'd get them to re-think a few things. Only aggressive action will save what is left of the ability to make good money in production.
but, because you possess weapons of mass destruction doesn't mean you
should use them.
up until a year ago, it wasn't as if the production companies we're on
the verge of financial collapse. we were still making fairly decent
profits. yes, new guidelines and restrictions along with competition
created a less lucrative climate but we were more than surviving.
the difference between then and now is the liability and risk of non
payment wasn't looming over us.i believe we need to take action such
as talking more openly, getting the production community to agree upon
and enact a joint agenda. most importantly, industry leaders pushing
back every day.
i say, diplomacy first before we go on an all out assault. there is a
lot to lose for everyone by going to a publicity war and creating even
more distrust.
also, there is no slam dunk that either the consumers or the corporate
employees are going to sympathize with a bunch of guys living in NYC
and Hollywood.
With that said, we need to leave all our options open. And what you
guys suggest is one them but should be the action of last resort.
up until a year ago, it wasn't as if the production companies we're on the verge of financial collapse. we were still making fairly decent profits. yes, new guidelines and restrictions along with competition created a less lucrative climate but we were more than surviving.
the difference between then and now is the liability and risk of non payment wasn't looming over us.i believe we need to take action such as talking more openly, getting the production community to agree upon and enact a joint agenda. most importantly, industry leaders pushing back every day.
i say, diplomacy first before we go on an all out assault. there is a lot to lose for everyone by going to a publicity war and creating even more distrust.
also, there is no slam dunk that either the consumers or the corporate employees are going to sympathize with a bunch of guys living in NYC and Hollywood.
With that said, we need to leave all our options open. And what you guys suggest is one them but should be the action of last resort.
I think the route you speak of has received the same type of lip service and dancing-around for over 20 years. The issues have not changed. Mark-up, non-payment, agency contracts were all issue in the 80's and very little has been done to affect change.
And you miss the point. Why aren't industry leaders going as a group to Procter & Gamble? They are very reasonable and impressionable people. The Bud guys are not. But certainly both would understand a group of industry leaders in their faces pushing back against bad business practice.
Going public is a last resort, but should certainly be a weapon in the arsenal.
That these issues have not been seriously pushed back for many years means that every company is on its own. No matter how much you and other EP's get together and negotiate good deals with the trade unions and DGA, very few of your competitors will leave money on the table if the two choices are less and none. You have written the tales how how agencies and clients want you to fight with competitors over the right to lose or "invest" in their commercials. Do you think this will end with the wave of a wand?
And its not just about the guys living in NY and Hollywood. There are thousands of tradesmen who are in financial peril now. Grips, gaffers, video guys, script supervisors et al who depend on you and the other companies (as you well know) to make a living. They benefit by your success and they have taken the brunt of the margin shrinkage of the day.
And by the way, I didn't post using my name, so thanks for that.
the lessening of profits has more to do with competition than it does with cost consultants or some agency policy. the thing of most relevance is fear of non payment. this was never an issue up until the world fell upon the brink if economic collapse. as the pillars of corporate america fell those of us that feed from their trough felt the pain greater than we ever anticipated.
as to guys living in hollywood and ny, your right there are countless others tradesmen and vendors who need this business. but, you and i both know a percentage of production companies have very little concern for those people. how many of the little guys have been asked to cut rates and give free days without ever have their kindness reciprocated when there is a job flush with cash? this is also not something new.
what i'm saying is that we aren't exactly angels ourselves. however, clients are crossing the line. although this has been building for over time it is rapidly reaching the point where the rewards no longer match the risk. this is a new development. for anyone to cry poverty or that we've been taken advantage of for the last 20 years, is either greedy or ran their company poorly.
fighting back against the mouth that has fed us all and continues to do so, must be done carefully and strategically. i admit we are doing a poor job of doing this. but, entering into a PR war with corporate america that has deeper pockets, better media relationships and is our source of revenue is a fool's errand.
in the perfect world the moral high ground (which is pretty shaky under our feet) would be enough. as we know our world is far from perfect.
more importantly look at the top 30 companies in this business over
those 20 years. have they flourished? have they been making profits
equal to or exceeding their risk?
the lessening of profits has more to do with competition than it does
with cost consultants or some agency policy. the thing of most
relevance is fear of non payment. this was never an issue up until the
world fell upon the brink if economic collapse. as the pillars of
corporate america fell those of us that feed from their trough felt
the pain greater than we ever anticipated.
as to guys living in hollywood and ny, your right there are countless
others tradesmen and vendors who need this business. but, you and i
both know a percentage of production companies have very little
concern for those people. how many of the little guys have been asked
to cut rates and give free days without ever have their kindness
reciprocated when there is a job flush with cash? this is also not
something new.
what i'm saying is that we aren't exactly angels ourselves. however,
clients are crossing the line. although this has been building for
over time it is rapidly reaching the point where the rewards no longer
match the risk. this is a new development. for anyone to cry poverty
or that we've been taken advantage of for the last 20 years, is either
greedy or ran their company poorly.
fighting back against the mouth that has fed us all and continues to
do so, must be done carefully and strategically. i admit we are doing
a poor job of doing this. but, entering into a PR war with corporate
america that has deeper pockets, better media relationships and is our
source of revenue is a fool's errand.
in the perfect world the moral high ground (which is pretty shaky
under our feet) would be enough. as we know our world is far from
perfect.